Tell me something I don’t know about the first time you guys met. 

Phoebe: We met separately.

Lucy: [To Julien] Did I meet you before Phoebe, or did y’all meet first? 

Julien: I thought I met Phoebe first because I was hyping Phoebe to you. No, maybe it was other way.

Phoebe: Yeah, I thought it was the other way around. I feel Lucy was ever-present in your scene, which is so weird. 

Julien: I found [Phoebe’s] SoundCloud, I thought, This person looks cool. I hope she’s nice to me when I meet her on stage.

Lucy: I was intimidated to meet you, Phoebe, because you were hyped so much by Julien. Are you surprised by that?

Phoebe: Yeah. Just the idea of me being intimidating. But that makes me laugh because one time I was talking to my band and fucking Marshall said I was scary, laughing. And everybody was like, “You are fucking scary.”

Lucy: You are.

Phoebe: Thanks, guys.

Julien: You’re scary.

Phoebe: Hype me up. I like being scary.

Lucy: I know, I feel you wield it on purpose.

Phoebe: That’s so funny.

Julien: This is your shit! No, of course. Because you’re like, “Ah, this song is so dumb”—most beautiful shit I’ve ever heard. You’re like, “No, I’m not scary.” And then you’re terrifying.

Lucy: Yeah, I was intimidated to meet you. And I just didn’t. I saw you play at Julien’s manager’s record store in Richmond. Which was a brief hello and then I left. When Julien and I met, we did a secret handshake that we haven’t really done maybe—

Julien: I don’t remember how it goes.

Lucy: I remember how it goes. We did a hand thing, and then we went in a circle and slapped the other arm.

Julien: I was like, “Hell yeah.”

Lucy: Double eagle.

Julien: The first time I heard “Motion Sickness,” Phoebe played it at the El Rey.

Phoebe: That’s the first time I ever played it.

Julien: And then when you sent me the final recording, I was like, “This is a Fleetwood Mac song that is going to be a classic song forever.”

Phoebe: It was only because I was using you as a…I’d just gotten off tour with you when I wrote that and was like, “Oh, these old guys don’t understand, I just want to be playing quiet at the beginning and then be screaming at the end. Everybody leave me alone.” I was just so trying to do Julien Baker because your songs do that. There’s a refrain at the end that is really earned. 

I love getting to know how you guys were influencing each other at this time. That was what, 2016?

Julien: Was I still whipping the Accord?

Lucy: No.

Julien: No. I was in the Hyundai, so it was 2016. I’ve totaled four fucking cars. That’s how I measure time. I’m like, “Was this Hyundai era or was this.…”